I have to tell you, this one got me before we even finished the first question.

I sat down with John Milliard, the owner of Pappy's Pizza & Subs on Elm Street, and within minutes we realized we had almost the exact same story. I started working at my family's restaurant, Belmont Hall, when I was 12 years old. John started at Pappy's the same age -- running the toaster during breakfast service. Neither one of us had any idea, back then, that we'd end up owning the places that raised us.

John's first job at Pappy's wasn't glamorous. He started making pizza boxes, then graduated to the toaster, learning to time breakfast plates so everything hit the table together. From there he moved to the grill, then the deli. He was twelve years old, and he was already learning what it takes to run a restaurant -- he just didn't know it yet.

Years later, after building a career outside of Manchester, John got the call that Pappy's was for sale. He described it to me as "emotional attachment" -- the kind of bond you don't recognize until you're standing in front of it, deciding whether to walk away or lean in. He leaned in. At the end of 2022, John bought the restaurant that raised him.

You can't tell John's story without telling Ron's. Ron Pappas opened Pappy's back in 1982, and ran it for decades from a wheelchair after an accident left him paralyzed. John was clear about this -- Ron never treated it as an obstacle. He used the restaurant, and his own story, to give back to the community every chance he got.

Ron was also the reason nobody had to ask John twice about what mattered. He was the one who packed up his wheelchair and drove John to visit colleges -- something nobody else in John's household had ever talked about. "You can't make toast forever," Ron told him.

John still lives by one of Ron's sayings -- you're either a wind on the sail, or an anchor on the tail. It's the kind of line you don't forget.

When John bought the building, he closed it for three months for a full renovation. He gutted the kitchen, added new restaurant technology, built out a bar with cocktail service, and redid the parking lot -- but he was careful about what he left alone. The same tables. The same booths. The same nostalgia that regulars have walked in for since 1982.

The menu staples never moved either -- the pan pizza, the crinkle cut fries, the famous steak and cheese, the hand-breaded tenders. The dough and the sauce are still made fresh, every single day. And if you're feeling brave, there's a 20-inch pizza eating challenge on the menu -- finish it in the time limit and you walk out with a free pizza, a VIP shirt, and any dessert you want. By John's estimate, only about one in five people who attempt it actually finish.

I run a 24-hour diner with four locations, and John runs Pappy's on two shifts, seven days a week -- and somehow we still found ourselves nodding along to almost everything the other one said. About delegating. About treating every employee like family. About the fact that respect in this business is never given, it's earned, one shift at a time.

If you haven't been to Pappy's, go say hi to John and tell him I sent you. And if you have a Ron Pappas of your own -- someone who saw something in you before you saw it in yourself -- this episode is for you too.

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ABOUT CAROL ERICKSON

Carol Erickson has owned Red Arrow Diner since 1987 -- four locations across New Hampshire, open 24/7. She started Beyond the Plate to tell the real stories behind the people who make New England's food and hospitality scene what it is. Not just what's on the menu. What's behind it.

Red Arrow Diner: redarrowdiner.com  | @redarrow24diner